Bob and Scott explore the impact of rock music, media evolution, and the concept of the Android Meme, featuring insights on music’s shift from cultural force to digital experience.
Bob Dobbs is a Zappa researcher and McLuhan scholar.
Scott Woods is a critic based in Toronto who manages the websites RockCritics.com and GreilMarcus.net.
Recorded December 21, 2009.
00:00:06 – Introduction
00:02:10 – Simon Frith
Critique of Simon Frith’s sociological approach to rock criticism, noting that critics like Frith and Greil Marcus fail to capture the rebellious essence of rock.
00:06:00 – Frith vs. McLuhan
A passage from Frith’s book that challenges Bob’s claim that rock is anti-intellectual. They discuss McLuhan’s idea that “the user is the content.”
00:09:01 – Kroker’s Theories on Music and Power
Arthur Kroker’s concept of “crash music” and how it re-commodifies culture. Kroker’s view of music as a powerful societal force.
00:16:00 – Rock Music as Tactile Experience
Kroker’s view that modern music functions on a tactile level in a postmodern, quantum-fluctuating reality.
00:18:46 – Limitations of Traditional Rock Criticism
Bob critiques traditional rock criticism for being outdated and unable to grasp the complexity of contemporary music.
00:22:47 – Critics and Crash Music
Bob explains why he pursued criticism over rock stardom, using Kroker’s “crash music” concept to show how music reflects postmodern society.
00:26:04 – The Body Without Organs
Kroker’s idea of the “body without organs,” where music influences not just physical bodies but also non-organic ones like the TV or chip body.
00:29:00 – The Physical Impact of Music
The conversation shifts to boom cars, with Bob discussing how powerful sound systems create a visceral experience.
00:32:01 – Media Convergence and Youth Culture
Younger generations, immersed in gaming and digital gadgets, are part of a media landscape where music is just one component of a multimedia experience.
00:36:09 – Fragmentation of Music Markets
The fragmentation of music markets in the digital age.
00:40:00 – Burnout and the Post-Information Society
Burnout in rock criticism and personal expression.
00:44:42 – Breakdown of Communication
Breakdown of communication in modern society, tying it to McLuhan’s idea of perpetual change.
00:47:00 – Sacrificial Power and Abuse Value
Kroker’s theory of sacrificial power, how stars like Madonna and Dylan thrive on collapse and resurgence.
00:50:00 – Cynical Nature of Modern Music
Bob describes how music, especially rock, has become commodified and cynical since the 1980s.
00:53:00 – Disconnection from Authentic Experience
Bob introduces the “Android Meme,” where people act as processors in a larger media system.
01:00:03 – Rock as Anti-Thinking
Rock as “anti-thinking,” and ock’s effect on multiple body systems with more limited literary critiques.
01:03:36 – Rock Music, Criticism, and the Gutenberg Effect
Rock criticism reduces tactile, sensory experiences into written form.
01:05:51 – Rock Criticism and Writing
Bob critiques critics for framing music within academic contexts, missing the larger role music plays in today’s media landscape.
01:09:06 – Western Need for a Big Picture
Western culture’s reliance on big-picture thinking, arguing that in today’s media environment, this visual-centric approach is outdated.
01:12:25 – Crash Music and the Cultural Cyclotron
Kroker’s “crash music” as a cultural force driving societal change.
01:16:00 – Decline of Chemical Body Values in Music
How modern music has shifted away from human-centered “chemical body” values to digital systems within the “Android Meme.”
01:17:50 – Generational Shifts and the Rise of the TV Body
How younger generations adopted the “TV body,” focusing more on media consumption than political engagement.
01:20:00 – Kroker’s Focus on Major Media Figures
How Kroker analyzed global figures like Michael Jackson and Madonna to understand media’s broader societal impact.
01:23:00 – Music in the Postmodern Age
How younger generations, with access to vast music archives, experience music detached from specific generational identities.
01:26:00 – Android Meme and Cultural Phases
Kroker’s phases of the “Android Meme,” from punk to rap, explaining how today’s youth are immersed in a sensory-driven digital era.
01:30:00 – Personality Types in Music Preferences
Bob links different personality types to distinct musical preferences.
01:34:00 – Postmodern Complexity
How Kroker builds on McLuhan’s ideas but often adds complexity that can obscure key messages.
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