Zappa researcher Bob Dobbs interviews Zappa band member Ike Willis about events surrounding Frank’s musical Thing-Fish (1984).
Bob and Ike delve into Frank’s mysterious and sudden terminal illness, pondering if it was more than just natural causes. They discuss the possibility that Frank’s controversial disclosure about an AIDS conspiracy through his musical project “Thing Fish” might have made him a target, leading to his potential poisoning.
Suspicions are further fueled by the 60 Minutes crew’s extensive filming around Frank, which oddly was never aired. The dialogue is a blend of memories, concerns, and theories about Frank’s abrupt health decline and the potential motives behind it.
Interview conducted December 2011.
Frank’s views on AIDS and bio-warfare discussed in the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0F174HJpRI
Ike Willis photo credit: By Joe Mabel, CC BY-SA 3.0
0:00 – Uncharted Zappa Stories
Bob and Ike introduce a never-before-discussed story involving Frank Zappa, hinting at their earlier conversation in Germany.
1:08 – KAL007 & Mae Brussell
Bob elaborates on the KAL007 incident, Mae Brussell’s suspicions, and Larry Flint’s controversial advertisement questioning the incident.
1:53 – Brussell, Flint, & Zappa
Frank Zappa’s role in connecting Mae Brussell and Larry Flint and crafting the pivotal ad is revealed.
4:41 – Origins of “Thing Fish”
From “Mammy Nuns” to “Thing Fish,” Ike and Bob explore the musical’s transformation, culminating in an AIDS narrative inspired by insider information.
8:01 – “The Mammy Nuns”
The initial concept behind “The Mammy Nuns” is detailed, focusing on music and the prison setting theme.
9:49 – Musical Development
Ike elaborates on the musical’s evolution, the limited awareness among band members, and the introduction of the AIDS conspiracy.
11:19 – Ike’s Family & Tours
Ike’s absence from the 1982 tour due to personal commitments is discussed.
11:53 – The AIDS Connection
Frank learns from a trusted neighbor about the potentially man-made origin of the AIDS virus.
14:37 – Motives & Public Reaction to AIDS News
The gravity of the AIDS revelation, public suspicions, and the source’s credibility are deliberated upon.
16:37 – “Thing Fish” as a Beacon of Truth
The musical becomes a vehicle for Frank and Ike to spread the word about the AIDS conspiracy while ensuring their safety.
18:04 – Frank’s Reach & Neighbor’s Obliviousness
Frank’s vast influence, the neighbor’s casual disclosure, and the latter’s underestimation of Zappa’s reach are discussed.
21:36 – Completing the “Thing Fish” Narrative
The integration of various themes, including a mystery disease and imprisonment, is discussed, leading to the project’s completion by late 1983.
25:04 – Gail’s Awareness & Flint Meeting
Bob questions if Gail knew about the story. They discuss a meeting with Larry Flint, the Thing Fish scenario, and Flint’s advertising in 1983.
26:35 – Hustler Magazine & Flint’s Ventures
Conversations touch on Hustler magazine images, Thing Fish plot, AIDS subplot, and Flint’s alternative magazine idea, including JFK assassination.
28:07 – Story Development & Album Release
Ike’s unfamiliarity with Rebel magazine is revealed. They discuss the story’s evolution, the 1984 album release, and potential audience reactions.
29:55 – Disclosure & Warfare Views
Bob asks about Frank’s disclosure plan and his views on biological warfare, emphasizing Frank’s hesitation to discuss specifics.
31:01 – Threats & Musical Surveillance
The potential threats they face are discussed. The timeline of events from 1984, phone tapping, and musicians’ surveillance are highlighted.
32:33 – Sharing Stories & Band Knowledge
Bob’s reticence to share surveillance stories is covered. Ike questions if band members knew the story, highlighting limited discussions.
33:49 – Congress Event & Authority Views
Frank’s 1985 Congress appearance and authority perceptions of Frank’s music are discussed. The deeper messages in songs are explored.
35:39 – Fan Theories & Higher Power Opinions
Fan interpretations and the possible oversight by “higher powers” in understanding Frank’s music are deliberated.
36:39 – Senate Hearings & 84 Tour
Frank’s Senate hearing comments and Ike’s memories from the ’84 tour regarding AIDS awareness are covered.
38:07 – Fan Interactions & 1988 Tour
Bob inquires about fan Joey Psychotic. The 1988 tour, Frank’s voter registration, and conspiracy theories about his health are discussed.
41:18 – Tour Incidents & Health Concerns
The Portland incident and tour aftermath are shared. Frank’s deteriorating health and initial reactions to his illness are highlighted.
45:27 – Conspiracy Theories & Media Involvement
Bob introduces a theory of deliberate harm. Frank’s interactions with the 60 Minutes team and their mysterious decisions are analyzed.
49:56 – Unanswered Questions
Bob and Ike voice their uncertainties and questions regarding the discussed events, leaving the audience pondering.
Leave a Reply