Bob Dobbs and music writer Scott Woods dive deep into rock criticism, focusing on the concept of “anti-tongue”—a rejection of direct lyrical meaning in favor of sonic and tactile experiences
Bob Dobbs is a Zappa researcher and McLuhan scholar.
Scott Woods is a critic based in Toronto who manages the websites RockCritics.com and GreilMarcus.net.
Recorded March 28, 2010
00:00 – Introduction
05:00 – Nature of Rock
Bob and Scott explore how rock music defies traditional literary analysis. They argue that rock is more of an experiential and environmental phenomenon rather than a structured narrative. The discussion highlights the rock audience’s rejection of “cumbersome structural resolution,” emphasizing that over-intellectualizing rock strips it of its immersive quality.
10:00 – Anti-Tongue
The conversation shifts to the role of lyrics in rock music, introducing the idea of the “anti-tongue”—a rejection of direct lyrical meaning in favor of sonic and tactile experiences. They examine songs like The Association’s Along Comes Mary and Paul Revere and the Raiders, discussing how some bands embraced lyrical obscurity to enhance the musical experience.
20:00 – From Rock to Punk and Rap
Bob and Scott trace the transition from rock to punk and rap, discussing how punk was a reaction to overproduced rock while rap reintroduced lyrical prominence in a new, hyper-political way. The role of marketing in shaping the punk movement is examined, with references to Malcolm McLaren and The Great Rock ‘n’ Roll Swindle. They also discuss how digital media changed the structure of music consumption.
30:00 – End of Analog Music
Bob argues that the 1960s marked the last era of analog media before digital technology reshaped music and culture. They discuss how music in the 1970s and 1980s became more programmed, losing the spontaneous and chaotic energy of earlier rock movements. The conversation also touches on the “Android Meme” and how digital replay technology altered musical perception.
40:00 – Politics as the New Rock
Scott expresses his fascination with American politics, noting that it has replaced music as the main stage for societal tension and excitement. Bob agrees, suggesting that political discourse now fulfills the role that rock once did in creating cultural energy and conflict. They explore how media addiction plays into this shift, with people constantly seeking new patterns and controversies.
50:00 – Entertainment in a Post-Information Society
The discussion shifts to modern entertainment consumption, highlighting how passive entertainment is declining in favor of more interactive digital experiences. Bob mentions a 16-hour press conference they held as an example of extended media engagement, predicting that real-time digital interactions will become the dominant form of entertainment.
55:00 – Rock, Media, and Cultural Shifts
Bob and Scott conclude by reflecting on how rock music, media, and culture have evolved. They acknowledge the ongoing transformation of entertainment and the increasing dominance of digital experiences. Bob emphasizes that new forms of media engagement, such as pattern recognition and extended conversations, are overtaking traditional forms of artistic consumption.
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